Conqueropoly [gameplay sketch/interest gague]

by **ManBungalow** on Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:45 pm

See the similar concept from a long time ago: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=65313#p1612889

Click image to enlarge.

Please don't move this to the map ideas area and I will be back with some more specific gameplay details soon.

So long as somebody is interested.

I realise that this is not a possessive cup of tea for everyone.

by **cairnswk** on Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:58 pm

MB. I think this would work...
* if the values on XYZ were kept at a minimum so that other players could by-pass certain terts...perhaps allow 1,2,3,4,5,6 assault capabilities (as per the real game)
* perhaps get rid of the 3 corners as they are now and replace them with clockwise roundabouts (4 terts each corner)
* i think it could be a fun map

by **nicarus** on Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:09 pm

great idea, hope this gets a lot of support

by **sempaispellcheck** on Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:59 pm

If you could find some way to add the house/hotel idea to all that Gilligan had going on in his map, that might be cool.
That said, I can't wait to see what it looks like once you've fleshed it out.

by **ManBungalow** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:40 pm

Right, let me know if this makes sense to any of you:

Click image to enlarge.

I can't stress enough that this is a gameplay sketch. If approved, I will sort the graphics later. Oh, and the peppers etc. are there as gameplay holders too.

The starting regions are labeled 888 in red here, and should be distributed in such a way that no player ever starts with an entire set (I believe this is possible?).

And the rest are the proposed neutral values.

The grouping of the map names are quite arbitrary, but vaguely connected in style/size etc.

by **TheSaxlad** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:39 pm

As the previous person to have a go at this map- I say go for it

and good luck to you

by **generalhead** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:46 pm

Awesome idea. It might be cool to have jail as super max prison riot.
It might be cool but would probably be too busy to have the pictures of the maps on their spaces.
Do you see the potential for deadlocks because this is a circular attacking board.
Is it possible that once the hotel is held you can attack any spot on the board.
Just and idea to think about.
What happens if you are in the development box and you colored set is broken, do those troops revert to neutral or does it stall until you can gain the colored set back?

by **nicarus** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:03 pm

you could change the cars to subways that interconnected, that would break up the problem with deadlocks. the territories could be named after the rail maps, usa, africa, europe, austrailia.

by **jonofperu** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:14 pm

Awe, somebody beat me to it! Was just dreaming about this idea last night... before going to sleep. LOL
GL and awesome idea.

by **ManBungalow** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:22 pm

nicarus wrote:you could change the cars to subways that interconnected, that would break up the problem with deadlocks. the territories could be named after the rail maps, usa, africa, europe, austrailia.

This is a great idea.

I was wondering about having the map images on each region. But, as I say, graphics can be dealt with in the future. Hopefully.

by **ManBungalow** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:25 pm

I was wondering about having some cards in the middle which can be attacked from the traditional card regions (which are currently peppers).

eg.
*a region (card) which says "advance to go", and attacks go.
*similarly, advance to Hive
*bank pays you dividend of +5 troops

etc

But I think the centre of the map is busy enough with the grids.

What say you?

by **ManBungalow** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:48 pm

generalhead wrote:A] Do you see the potential for deadlocks because this is a circular attacking board.
B] Is it possible that once the hotel is held you can attack any spot on the board.
C] What happens if you are in the development box and you colored set is broken, do those troops revert to neutral or does it stall until you can gain the colored set back?

A] Hopefully this is covered by cairns' ingenious idea of being able to move forward several spaces at a time (I've chosen 1, 2 or 3 spaces.

B] It is possible, but not an idea I really like.

C] This is covered in the essay of a legend - you need to hold all previous development layers and the coloured set of properties for the bonus of a given layer. If, for instance, an opponent takes one of your set, you'll still have whatever development regions you have taken, but won't be credited with a bonus for them.

sempaispellcheck wrote:If you could find some way to add the house/hotel idea to all that Gilligan had going on in his map, that might be cool.

I've checked back on Gilligan's map thread and there doesn't seem to be a house/hotel idea?

by **ManBungalow** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:50 pm

This is a tidied up version of the gameplay so far:

Click image to enlarge.

Let me know please if you understand everything in the legend. And on the image entirely, really.

To do:
Decide what to put into the currently empty card spaces. Among other things.
And try to regroup the region names (maps) so that each set can have a bonus name, rather than the arbitrary "yellow set". I'm thinking of having groups as such...
eg. Italy/England/France in the 'Europe' set
Montreal/Vancouver/NYC in the 'Cities' set
...and so on.

by **sempaispellcheck** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:59 pm

ManBungalow wrote:
sempaispellcheck wrote:If you could find some way to add the house/hotel idea to all that Gilligan had going on in his map, that might be cool.

I've checked back on Gilligan's map thread and there doesn't seem to be a house/hotel idea?

Right. What I meant was, it would be cool if you added your house/hotel idea to Gilligan's map - but you seem to have done that already.

by **nicarus** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:59 pm

if there is no reason to hold Jail, why would anyone take it if it has a -5 for holding it

by **nicarus** on Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:36 pm

here are a few groups i threw together.
1. age of relms= might, magic, mayhem
2. sports= baseball, cricket, poker ( its on ESPN )
3. islands= cyprus, madagascar, jamaica
4.midievil= castle lands, seige!, middle ages
5. nuclear war= arms race, duck & cover, USApocalypse
6. egypt= upper, lower, nubia
7. battles= austerlitz, pearl harbor, waterloo
8. WWII= iwo jima, gazala, poland
9. cunucks= canada, montreal, vancouver
10. space= solar system, lunar war

hope this helps

by **koontz1973** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:59 am

ManB, wow, of all the ideas you could of chosen, you chose this bad nugget.

Ask yourself these things.
How are you going to get around copyright issues. This is monopoly with different names. Now that game has different names on it so you cannot claim that as far enough away to get around CR issues.
Why would anyone want to play this? You have a single track going around the outside of the board in one direction. Absolutely no strategy in this at all. At least Circus Maximus has 3 tracks to race around.
Why would anyone go into the centre of the map for a bonus with all those neutrals to attack?
What about bonus drops for the bonuses. 2 cards will get dropped a lot, and the 3 cards will get dropped so often games will become a joke. How is the purple 2 cards worth more than the brown 2 cards? I know it is like that in the board game, but that is not how we work.
This was a bad idea in 2008, what makes it a good idea now?

by **jonofperu** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:42 am

I'm not very knowledgable on copyright, but does it help that Monopoly was originally created in 1903 and published in 1923 as The Landlord's Game? Maybe this was all discussed in the previous attempt at the map.

Click image to enlarge.

I think the patent for the Monopoly game as we know it was given in 1935. Maybe the laws are different for works of literature, but if one of the old versions is out of copyright you could copy that??

It would be a shame to miss out on creating this due to copyright issues. We have lots of knockoff maps, hey the site itself is a knockoff. How did we get around creating "Conquer Man", etc.?
I imagine you should be able to alter things sufficiently to get around copyright if it's indeed an issue.

As far as gameplay, koontz sounds overly negative. If his concerns are legitimate there has to be a way to fix them.
One suggestion already made is to let the train stations interconnect so you can get around the board more easily.
I think it sounds like an awesome gameplay idea.

Of course it would be nice to have an "alfa-testing" option to get a more real feel for how new concepts play, but that's been shot down so far.
I'm thinking of printing my maps off and using pieces from my Risk game to play against myself on them just to get a better feel for them.

by **koontz1973** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:04 am

As far as gameplay, koontz sounds overly negative. If his concerns are legitimate there has to be a way to fix them.

Not being overly negative, but this is just that, a bad idea. It was back in 2008 and it still is 5 years later.

It would be a shame to miss out on creating this due to copyright issues.

No way, the copyright issue makes this an imposable game to copy. As for the other issues of copyright with Conquerman, it is far enough from the original to make it OK.

The two maps mentioned, Conquerman and Circus Maximus are two of the least played maps. This may find a very small niche audience, but apart form that, it will sit their in the ranks of maps gathering dust. MB may not like me for saying this, but this map should be forgotten about. He has had some wonderful ideas in the past with his Marooned map, but just gave it up.

by **jonofperu** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:38 am

See that's what I don't get, Pac-Man came out in 1980, Monopoly was arguably invented in 1903.
The Conquerman layout is virtually identical to it's original:

Click image to enlarge.

So how is Conquerman OK but no way on Monopoly? Conquer man isn't any farther from it's original either in graphics/layout or time since publication.
Maybe I should delete this post after making the point... My intention isn't to make problems for Conquerman.
I'm just wondering what the standards are for copyright issues? Facts why it's impossible?

Koontz, your criticism is valuable. I appreciate your work in the foundry.
What I mean by overly negative is you simply say it's a bad idea, period.
You back up your opinion with reasons, so no problem there.
But I think a less negative approach would be:
"It's a bad idea IMO for these reasons: 1, 2, 3."
So then solve 1, 2, 3 and voila, a playable map.

One reason you gave was going around in a circle.
Make RRs connect and you can jump across the map. Problem solved?
Maybe I need to look up the original thread...

by **koontz1973** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:55 am

jonofperu, lets get this back on topic, copyright has been discussed many times in the discussions forum. It has also stopped many maps. We can carry on that part another time via chat or PM. Or even better, set up a discussion in discussions and we can all get in on the act.

As for bad ideas, not including the CR issue.

No strategy.
No one will play for the neutrals in the centre as why waste the troops, so waste of map.
2 and 3 region continents are not allowed as bonus drops will happen.
Bonuses are all over the place. You cannot have one continent worth 5 and another worth 1 when both are identical, will never pass game play.
Chasing a player around the board like this has been proven to be boring. Just go and play Circus Maximus. (32 thousand games only in 7 years).

Here a 5 reasons of the top of my head without thinking.

As for being negative, yes I am about this one. It really is a bad idea. There are thousands of great ideas out there for a map like Aztec temples or even a round of golf.

by **Seamus76** on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:10 pm

I have to agree with Koontz. Although with some hard work and a lot of time in the foundry you could make this into a good map, I think your time and energy (as well as the enjoyment of the community) would be better served on another map.

by **jonofperu** on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:47 am

Well said, Koontz.
Overoptimistic people like me need someone to do your job and say "wake up, it stinks".
You make valid points.
I would still say that it's up to ManB whether he loves the idea enough to make it work. Even Circus Maximus deserved to be made. CC loses nothing with maps that appeal to smaller segments of the community as long as they work.
Probably a good idea to listen to the community though.
I guess I'm kind of emotionally attached to the idea because I had just been thinking what a cool idea it would be to make a Monopoly map and the next day I found this thread.
:lol:

by **thenobodies80** on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:31 pm

I think that the map can be made....i discussed a bit this with koontz and I showed to him an example of how other people circumvented the copyrights problem.
More you stay away from that famous hasbro game, better it will be.

If you wonder this is what Parker brothers and then hasbro copyrighted:

The PARKER BROTHERS® trademark and its logo, the MONOPOLY® trademark and its logo, the
distinctive design of the game board, each of the distinctive elements of the board including the four
corner squares, and the playing pieces are trademarks of Hasbro, Inc., for its real estate trading game
and game equipment.

Obviously gameplay needs heavy changes before we can consider to move this out from the drafting room.
Said that I would like to see marooned finished before you start this one. if i remember correctly, lot people liked that map project and I saw potential into it!

Nobodies